May the 3rd Sortie Discussion

Dojo said it'd be a good idea to write out last night's sortie so that we can work out the flaws, etc - thought I'd write it from my point of view, then get Dojo and Dezey's points of view and see what it adds up to together:

Having patroled in two sections (Dojo and Dezey at 20k - Myself at 25k) without contact, we then went lower to 15k and 20k respectively.

We continued without contact for a while, as such Dojo and Dezey went down to the deck (1k - 5k) to engage in low level turn combat near town, leaving me with the following options:

• Remain in overwatch at 20,000 feet, relatively safe from attack - but out of visual range of the 1st Section.
  
• Go down to 10,000 - 15,000 feet to keep visual range with 1st Section, however be at high risk of being bounced
  
• Abandon overwatch and go down to the deck to make a 3 craft Section with the 1st Section.

I decided to go down to 10,000 feet to try to maintain overwatch - but then heard that Dezey had a 109 on his tail so tried to bounce the bandit, but missed as they were quite slow and turning sharply.

I then somehow found myself low and slow (I think I zig zag too much to compensate for the annoying Pilot rear armour in the Spit V and IX.) so tried to gain some alt - then on one of my zigs (or was it zags...) I saw two 109s diving down at me from high alt, so said "Bandits" and then broke hard to avoid them.

I then found myself on the deck, but lost vis on the two 109s, which is when Dojo said they were above him, as such he said that Dezey and I should try to gain altitude to come back at the 109s.

I headed out to the west to try to gain altitude, and got up to 9000 feet before Dojo asked where I was, as they were engaged at low altitude (I was still under the false impression that the 109s were at 10 - 15k booming and zooming) as such I turned around to head towards Dojo's location, whilst dropping down to 5000ft, however by the time I got there Dojo said he was dead - then upon entering visual range I saw 6 cons ahead at 2000 feet or so, then Dezey said he was dead...

So then I ran away.


My opinion on the sortie:

When I was engaged by the two 109s I should've stayed with them to allow Dojo and Dezey to gain alt and come back to attack them, but at the time I wasn't sure if they were aware that I was under attack, so decided to dive out, which was probably a bad idea.

If there's only 1 Fighter as Top cover then ideally the bottom section should keep a hard deck restriction, otherwise the Top cover is forced to go down to combat altitude to keep them in range, which leaves it very vulnerable to attack (single fighter flying along at 10 - 15k in a red square looking downwards - endless fun. ) - if it were a full section as top cover this wouldn't be a problem, however - as they'd be able to cover eachother. So ideally if the low section do go down to the deck then the 3rd fighter should abandon high cover and merge with the low section to create a 3 man Section.

nice report MJ. I've got my bomber head on at the moment, will write up a full report in a bit.

some good points there though!

ok.

we entered the target area at around 25k, and the red squares and yellow squares indicated very heavy activity. There are two enemy airfields in the vicinity Bertrix a short flight to the east and Montfaucon to the South East, and we had already been bounced by a single 109 at around 20k.

The high air over the target was clear, but the red square stayed, so we decided to drop down a little to see if we could see what was going on. At this time, Myself and Dezey are assuming that MJ is 4-5,000 feet above us, and coming down too.

We had a little tangle with two or three 109's if I remember rightly at about 20k, with MJ coming in and clearing us up, forcing the 109's to dive out, and we rightly decided not to follow.

We carried on circling, getting lower and lower, until Dezey saw a 109 chasing a friendly at about 10k. Dezey dived on the con, and got engaged, and I joined in. At this point, as a section, we neglected to tell MJ what we needed, leaving him to make his own mind up. this is the first error. We should have said "come down MJ, we'll attack these 109s and then break off to the south". Instead, we hesitated too much, got engaged and split up.

Not to worry as we survived that encounter, and I decided we should head out west to regain altitude. This is the second error, as 'regain alt' is not specific enough. I should have said, "lets head west and get back up to 15k, form up over Dizy".

At this point I lost control of the situation, as I saw a high con I assumed was MJ, and a low con I assumed was Dezey - turned out the high con was actually 2 109s, and the low con was MJ who had been bounced.

We should, as a squadron, be able to deal with getting bounced by higher 109s. Its a simple game of break and shallow climb. I saw Dezey on the map was to the south, so suggested to him to climb up and 'spook' these 109s, but my instruction wasn't specific enough again and seemed more like I wanted Dezey and MJ to climb out to the west still. I was calling out my alts, and the third 109 that attacked me was only at about 7k, so I broke and engaged him (shooting him down btw ), but the other two were still on me. My only choice now was to head to the deck, I asked MJ what his alt was, expecting him to say 5k or so, but he had got back to 10 or 15 and was too far away to help. I was on the deck by then, getting shot at.

At some point I got another 109, but thats how I saw it all. be interesting to hear how Dezey saw it all?

Just read this after our training flight so too late to type now will do it tomorrow. In the meantime IT WAS DOJOS FAULT ! ;-)

Well a day at work hasnt helped my memory which was already hazy (Its my age) so I dont really remember much before me and Dojo got split up near the deck. I cant remember what I was doing but I did get the call from Dojo to climb W so we could bounce the 09s on Dojo. At this point both me and Mj were lower than Dojo I think. Think I may have gone to the deck to spray a Ju52. Anyway me and MJ headed NW trying to climb. I was at 5-7 when i could see Dojo closing on the map. I saw him way below me (was expecting him to be at co alt as this was his last Alt call) with at least 2 09s on him. I could see Mj was too far away to help as I dived down to try and clear Dojo. As I got closer I could see more 09s round Dojo and rather knew we were in the sh@te.

Generally I think its much easier and quicker to bring cons down rather than try and climb up to help unless the lower flight have lots of speed.

I should have kept closer to Dojo, I still lose vis very quickly once in combat, and out of it come to think about it.

Having a hard deck can be helpfull but on that raid everything we saw, till Dojo got bounced,was on the deck.

In areas of heavy ea like last night it might be worth thinking about time limits at each alt instead of a hard deck. There was a constant stream of cons coming in and many would have been arriving at 20k and working down. Circling town for any length of time at 15 - 20k is dangerous.

I would agree with Mj that at some stage as we work down in heavy ea areas the high cover should link up with the lower flight so hes not hanging in limbo. In quieter areas it has worked well and weve managed a few nice drag n bags.